Is Acura repeating Oldsmobile's mistakes?

"No, I don't thank you for the fish at all" (notindetroit) 01/28/2014 at 08:42 • Filed to: Acura, Oldsmobile, History Repeating?

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Above is, well, you know. An RLX, in case you didn't. Acura advertises it as being competitive with the German competition (in their dreams) thanks to "Super-Handling" AWD (and yes, before you complain, I'm aware that "Super-Handling" is a legitimate thing). How many of you are actually convinced of that? !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! suggests that the SH-AWD might be legitimate at supporting the car's handling, too, but not having access to an example, I simply won't be able to tell for myself.

Moreover, Acura had once hoped, back in the 90s, to be the default choice of middle-of-the-road America, to provide a little more than just basic transportation - the Integra and even the Vigor/TL would provide a little bit more sport but the RL in particular would provide more comfort than the typical car-buying options. Acura hoped that every Grandpa Dick, Daddy Tom, and Momma Sally would want and own one.

Hey, that sounds really familiar.

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Watching that "promotional video" made me realize that Oldsmobile in the 80s was exactly what Acura wanted to be in the 90s and is still trying to be. Acura doesn't have Oldsmobile's problem of crummy cars with crummy build quality. I think regardless of the automotive situation, I think Oldsmobile would've still gone by the wayside because the reality of the car market's changed. You can take a look at Cadillac and the European competition. Rich people want enthusiasts' cars.

More specifically, the Acura RLX (and TL/TLX) have a big problem in that Honda already builds what every Grandpa Dick, Daddy Tom and Momma Sally want for much cheaper, and it's called the Accord.

I know !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! but BMW, Mercedes and Porsche are able to sell them. They sell them based on the enthusiast image. The Lexus RX350/400 Hybrid, traditionally the best-selling luxury car in North America period , sells because.... Acura has an SUV practically identical to the RX350 and for all intents and purposes, also to the X5 and and ML, called the MDX. Yet despite a very recent redesign it's still somewhat of an also-ran on the luxury crossover market.

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So is Honda just repeating the same mistakes GM made 20 years ago, just with better build quality? Will we soon be seeing odd, locally-hired "actors" complaining about Acura's bland styling and touch controls?

elev8r > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/28/2014 at 09:05

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PS9 > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/28/2014 at 09:09

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They are doing what Oldsmobile did, with a few critical differences;

Acura isn't Vestigial. Much to our Chagrin, there are a certain subset of people out there who just want to buy a non-trivially better Honda. Oldsmobile died when it did because, not only was most of their stuff rebadged, it also wasn't an improvement over what was available elsewhere in GMs range.

Acura is profitable with rising sales. It may suck for us Jalops that no one who buys Acuras is doing it for their RWD chassis and high revving V8s and V12s, but Acura undeniably has a place in the market. Oldsmobile didn't.

This is why they will not get punished the way Oldsmobile did for doing effectively the same thing. People would have to stop buying Acuras for them to reconsider their position in the marketplace, and so far anyway, people seem unwilling to do that.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/28/2014 at 09:17

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Actually, with the new model, SH stands for Sport Hybrid IIRC.

deekster_caddy > PS9 01/28/2014 at 09:55

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Agree completely - Acura is an upsell of Honda. Oldsmobile was muddled between Buick, Pontiac and Chevy - too much brand dilution and people figured it out.

Storz > No, I don't thank you for the fish at all 01/28/2014 at 11:22

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Yawn

AMC/Renauledge > PS9 01/28/2014 at 11:26

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Oldsmobile had a certain subset of people out there, too. And in fact that subset of people was, through most of the '90s, 2-3x bigger than Acura's is now. And toward the end of Oldsmobile, only the Silhouette was strictly "rebadged." The Alero had different front and rear sheetmetal and interiors. Same with the Bravada. The Intrigue and Aurora shared no exterior panels with any other GM vehicle. In fact, the Intrigue and Aurora had engines that weren't shared with any other GM vehicle. Their vehicles were seen as GM's most competitive (even though that wasn't saying much). It's just that their advertising was totally inept, as was their leadership at the time (i.e., Ron Zarella).

And I do think Oldsmobile could have had a place in the market, too. Had Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and Buick been given their own divisional autonomy all along, building their own engines, designing their own bodies and interiors on common GM platforms, each brand would still have an identity today. Much like SEAT, Skoda, VW, and Audi all have their own identities, yet use common platforms.

It was only after Roger B. Smith destroyed the divisional model within GM that the brands started squeezing each other.

PS9 > AMC/Renauledge 01/28/2014 at 12:35

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Oldsmobile had a certain subset of people out there, too. And in fact that subset of people was, through most of the '90s, 2-3x bigger than Acura's is now.

That subset wasn't enough to keep them afloat as a profitable company through the new milenium, which saw the complete collapse of their momentum as a brand. They stumbled fatally in the face of competitors in the 90s and would not recover.

Acura is growing and profitable as a brand. Olds wasn't. That's the point.

The Alero had different front and rear sheetmetal and interiors. Same with the Bravada. The Intrigue and Aurora shared no exterior panels with any other GM vehicle.

Do you expect people who aren't oldsmobile fanatics to ignore the obviously derivative nature of these products using such trivial details? To do so is to commit your car brand to slow sales, stalled momentum and, without significant intervention, inevitable death. It's not a coincidence that this is exactly what happened.

Had Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and Buick been given their own divisional autonomy all along, building their own engines, designing their own bodies and interiors on common GM platforms, each brand would still have an identity today.

This is how GM ran things in the post-WWII era. It makes sense to run your company like a gaggle of loosely associated competitors when you have half the worlds largest car market all to yourself, but it's a quick recipe for bankruptcy and declining marketshare in todays international auto market.

GMs decline in marketshare was inevitable. Having your presence in the marketplace chopped by more than half meant they were either going to sell significantly less cars, or go bankrupt trying to sell as many brands as possible. They took the latter road and ended up selling less cars anyway. There just wasn't going to be room for an eight-brand GM in the new global car market, especially with half of those eight not even pulling their weight in sales.

AMC/Renauledge > PS9 01/28/2014 at 12:47

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The collapse of Oldsmobile came in the late 1980s and early 1990s. That's when Olds sales fell from 1M units as late as 1986 to 300k by 1993. Olds sales stayed between 200k and 300k through 2003. So the die was struck much earlier than you're saying.

Part of that was down to the loss of divisional autonomy. GM's market share was over 40% in 1978, which is when Roger B. headed the decision to begin moving away from the divisional model. By 1984, each division had been reduced to a simple "brand" within the company and badge-engineering became the norm, rather than a side program.

Also, do you expect people who aren't Honda/Acura fanatics to ignore the obviously derivative nature of vehicles like the ILX? Because the ILX shares far more with the Civic than the Aurora did with the Bonneville, LeSabre, Park Avenue, Seville, and Eldorado did.

VW makes divisional autonomy work. Had GM kept divisional autonomy and built decent vehicles within that system, I am sure that their market share would be far better today.

Acura may be making Honda money. But that is only because of the massively derivative nature of their products. And Acura's sales growth has not kept up with the industry as a whole. Even Buick outsells them, with fewer models on offer.

elev8r > AMC/Renauledge 01/30/2014 at 10:10

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side note to all of this, the oldsmobile aurora (edit: first gen aurora only) was a sweet ride...its a real shame they got rid of it, or didn't try to sell it as chevy. my dad had one when i was growing up, and it had a sweet V8 that would just kill it in the 30-70 mph range. and i thought it had distinctive styling and a nice interior.